Bubble eye with inured eye sac- any advice appreciated

[Somervell]

Hello-

I have a bubble eye (kept in a tank with rounded surfaces, etc.) who became a victim of my careless vacuuming a week ago.  She swam right toward the suction, and the eye sac became torn from the eye. In short, they eye became slightly popped out, and the bubble became detached.

I have been treating in a bare 5 gallon hospital tank with salt and melafix, per the instructions of goldfish enthusiasts on another forum.  The tissue around the eye has turned brown, and I am wondering if more aggressive methods of treatment are necessary.  I cannot tell if the flesh is infected, or simply scabbing over and drying up.  The eye has a haze over it and the flesh looks somewhat like dried orange peel.

I am considering using Maracyn II to make sure that there is no systemic infection.  Is this premature? I have attached a photo taken today of the injury.  The cloudiness is the tank, not the water or on the fish.  Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

[SeaWitch]

Could you answer these questions for me?

http://www.aquapuppies.com/aquapuppies/index.php/topic,242.0.html

How agressively are you keeping a watch on the water parameters in the 5g?  A 5g tank does not make a good hospital tank as toxins build up really fast with GF.  The pic looks a bit shady, so it is hard to make out any details, but the black part could be a sign of healing or ammonia burns.  I would not add any other meds to the water right now, until we can determine if the water in the 5g is okay.  I would try to get a bigger QT tank, a 20g Rubbermaid type would do.  Also, is the tank cycled?

[zookey]

I agree...... a 5 gallon is hard to keep the water clear of ammonia and nitrites.  I would NOT use Maracyn II on a bubble eye..... they are already a delicate fish and Maracyn is known to cause kidney failure.  IF you want to use something for systemic infection I would suggest feeding an antibiotic food such as Medigold or MetroMeds available from Goldfish Connection (www.goldfishconnection.com)

It would be a good idea if you had some on hand for cases such as this anyway.

I should ask if you are located in the US...... I don't think that Goldfish Connection can ship out of the country any longer so if you are not in the US we would have to find a different brand of Antibacterial food.

It would be great if you could answer those questions that SeaWitch requested before we make too many suggestions.

[Somervell]

Thank you for your prompt responses.  Unfortunately, all I have is a 5 gallon at the moment.  The water has been changed at 50-60% per day, per the advice of another forum.  I doubt that ammonia would build up that quickly, although I certainly understand how serious ammonia levels can be.  The tank is not cycled, but the filter is cultured from another tank.  It may not be enough, but it would help. There are no other signs of ammonia related distress, such as fin damage, streaking or rapid respiration. I will, however, keep a close watch on water parameters.

I especially appreciate the advice on medication options.  I had no idea that Maracyn had that reputation.  I will make haste to get something else. I will keep watching the post for updates and responses.  Again, I truly appreciate your time and consideration.

I am in the US, and have been feeding a mix of goldfish pellets from Kens Fish and antibiotic pellets from Jungle Labs.  She isn't too crazy about the antibiotic pellets.  I tried her on those alone for the first two days, and she barely ate.

[Somervell]

Current water parameters

NitrAte 10
NitrIte-.25
Ammonia- midway between the .0-.25 range
Ph 7.8

In a fully cycled tank, you would expect the top three to be zero (or close) correct?  Nitrates high.  Will change out part of water and add conditioner. 

[zookey]

The answers to these questions can help us help you also:

1. Test results for the following:
    Ammonia Level?
    Nitrite Level?
    Nitrate Level (Before and After WC's)?
    Ph (in tank and out of tap)?   
    GH and KH?

2. Tank Size?  How long has it been running?  How many gallons?

3. Name and size of your filters?

4. How many fish in the tank?  Their size?

5. How often and how much water do you change?

6. Water additives or conditioners used?

7. What do you feed your fish?

8. Any medications added to the tank?

9. Any new fish added to the tank?  When?

10. Any new plants added to the tank?

11. Any unusual behavior from the fish?
   Fish are hanging near the surface and gulping for air and breathing rapidly.
   Fish are scratching themselves against objects in the tank (flashing).
   Fish has visible parasites or attached worms.
   Fish floating upside down.
   Fish has cloudy eyes.
   Fish have white spots.
   Fish is bloated and scales are standing out like a pinecone.
   Fish have black spots on body and/or fins.
   Fish have ulcers, lumps, or brown spots.
   Fungus or white cottony patches on the fish.

12. Well, city or RO water used for WC's?



As far as the medicated foods..... my fish have always preferred the MediGold and MetroMeds...... they won't even touch the Jungle brand.

In a fully cycled tank Amonia & nitrIte should be zero and nitrAte kept below 20, personally I try to keep mine below 10 because I have nitrAte sensitive fish.

[SeaWitch]

In a cycled tank, only nitrates show and they need to be kept as low as possible.  As for the Jungle brand med food, it is a good food, but the problem is that not many fish like it.  Goldfish Connection has two different types of antibac food, Medi-Gold and Metro-Meds.  My fish eat them up.

[SeaWitch]

I would also like to add that when treating a fish for any type of medical problem, clean water is a MUST.  They will not heal in water with severe toxins.  Try to keep the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates as low as possible.  How is your pH?

[Somervell]

I keep the water as pristine as possible.  Changed filters last night to a larger, cultured sponge filter without carbon.  Treated with antibiotic last night.  This morning, there was much less swelling in the eye area and less redness.  Evidently (and I should have thought of this) even the small amount of carbon in the mini filter was removing enough of the antibiotic to lessen its effectiveness.

I think that I am on the correct track with the clean water (parameters that I posted were before last PM water change-- ammonia and nitrite at very close to 0 now) and antibiotic.  Am continuing with salt, per advice of fish vet on other goldfish forum. 

I will order the recommended food-- Jungle must be disgusting in flavor, since it suggests you starve the fish for at least a day before introducing it.  I have heard several "goldie people" recommend Medi-gold, so I will accept the endorsement wholeheartedly.

Thanks again for your help and suggestions.  I will keep an eagle's eye on the water parameters and test at least twice daily thanks to your excellent suggestions.

[beebbug]

Hello and I hope your little baby is doing okay!
I am a bubble eye person myself and I know how delicate they really are! I'm actually surprised she is still around and soo happy that she is!
I was just wondering if there is anyway you can get her to an aquavet?  I had to trek over 60 miles to get mine to one recently and she prescribed him an antibiotic I give him in the form of 8 hour baths...It really has helped for after his surgeries for fighting off infection that these guys are soo prone to.  I know it might seem like a lot for a fish but it might be beneficial!  As for cost--it was 30 to see the vet and 14 for the medication. 
PLEASE keep me updated! my heart sank when I read this! You may want to look at our DIY section about making covers for your gravel vac.  I lost a bubble eye to the vac before and now I will NEVER vac without a cover!

[Somervell]

Oh, Beebug!  You have beautiful bubble eyes! 

The most heartbreaking thing about this is I have kept these beauties before-- my filters are covered.  There is no sharp object in my tank (sand bottom, river rocks and very round driftwood) and I always (except this time) use a stocking to cover the vacuum.( I have mini corys in another, and you HAVE to cover the vacuum.)  I was upset about something, and decided to do my routine tank mtce. to distract myself, and the result was the injury to poor Maurice.

Unfortunately, an aquavet is nearly unheard of in my area.  I do, however, have access to vet who started out as a marine biologist, so she is my next step, if needed.  I have seen at least 25% improvement over the post last night in terms of swelling and irritation.  I am very hopeful that the treatment I am using will work.  Thank you for your support and kind words.  Right now, they mean more than I can tell you. I will certainly keep you updated.  Think good thoughts for me and Maurice!

[zookey]

Ahahaha...... my uncles name is Maurice...... doesn't look a bit like your fish though. 

I am glad what you are doing is working.  Just do your best with the water parameters.  If you can get a hold of Prime water conditioner, I know it will help with the ammonia and nitrites..... detoxifying them so they are not as harmful to the fish.  This is NOT an alternative to frequent water changes though.

Another thought for a larger QT tank would be to get a clear plastic Rubbermaid type of container at WalMart or Target.... the more water the less concentrated the ammonia/nitrites/nitrate.

Keep us all updated.  I too have a bubble eye..... Charlie.  He is blue and chocolate and his bubbles are getting scary big.  I worry every time I put anything in his tank with regards to his bubbles.  Best of luck and I hope Maurice heals and regrows his bubble for you. 

[SeaWitch]

I am so glad that Maurice is improving!  Please keep us updated and we have our fingers and fins crossed for you both!!!

[Somervell]

Using Prime now.  I had run out. I quickly bought another bottle. I am a big Prime fan, myself. ( This is starting to sound like an infomercial for Prime-LOL)

Rubbermaid container is a good idea.  I will consider that.

Thanks for everyone's good thoughts.  I cannot express my gratitude enough. I will keep you posted. 

Anne

[Somervell]

Happy update:

Maurice continues to improve.  The injury is scabbing over and a new bubble is starting to form.  She is even starting to track a little bit with the bad eye. It still looks ugly, and the protective cast is still over the eye, but she is clearly moving it to track things, albeit slightly.  I don't think that she will lose it, but it remains to be seen how much vision she will have out of it.  Any vision at all would be exceptional.

Just wanted to post an update for you bubble eye lovers who might be watching this thread.

Anne

[beebbug]

thank you so much for the update! I'm so happy to hear it! I was very worried!
did you get a chance to check out the diy section for vacuum covers? you defiantly should!

[SeaWitch]

That is great news!!!  I hope your fishy makes a 100% recovery!!!

[Somervell]

Worry not.  Lesson learned.  Cover made

[zookey]

                   

So happy to hear that Maurice is on the mend!!  That picture you posted sure was a scary looking injury!  Keep up the good work and keep us updated. 

(By the way all those smileys are my attempt at a happy dance for Maurice!)

[Somervell]

That was cute, Zookey!  Thanks! Fortunately, it looks like Maurice is attempting to dance along.

It's still pretty ugly, but surely better than earlier in the week.

[zookey]

That was cute, Zookey!  Thanks! Fortunately, it looks like Maurice is attempting to dance along.

It's still pretty ugly, but surely better than earlier in the week.

  I am happy to dance with Maurice ANY time!