new to goldfish

[GoldFish19]

hi all...  my wife wants to start a goldfish tank, but we know little to nothing about goldfish...  i am familiar with fish, just the opposite of goldfish though...  i keep cichlids...  i have a 90 gallon cichlid tank, and have had them for a few years now... 

so, tons of questions to ask...   
1. size of tank?  we have a 29 gallon tank(30x12x18tall), would that do?
2. how many goldfish?  my wife is looking at getting 3...  she thinks that is a good number...   fantails is her fish of choice.  is 3 going to be ok for a 29...
3. gravel or sand?   i heard that you shouldn't put small gravel in as they like to dig, and they tend to think it might be food....  so i put sand down.   
4. filtration?   we have, what i believe to be, an emporer 400...  it has 2 compartments...  each has a biowheel, a blue filter pad of probably carbon, and a grey container of carbon or something...  is that good for goldfish or do i need something else...
5. decorations?   they like to swim, so i assume less is better...  it is in our bedroom, so i don't want it too plain...  we have a few fake plants in there now, and some rocks with holes in them from stores...
6. fish compatibilty?   we have had our 29 set-up as a community tank for years, so it is well established, and all fish have since died except for 2 black skirt tetras...  i know tropical fish and goldfish are not a good match, but you think they would be ok together if i kept the temp up at like 75 degrees...   i know disease and stuff is a factor, and i know what the answer probably is, but just wanting to know if anyone has kept fish like these with goldfish and have success with it...

last, again the tank has been running for years now with tropical fish...  is there some drastic thing i need to do before turning the heater down to 72-75 degrees, and adding goldfish... 

i am sure i missed some stuff, and hopefully all you guys/gals will help me out through this...  we are hopefully looking to add the goldfish this week, so if i shouldn't, PLEASE tell me....

like i said, we are new to goldfish, and are unsure of what to exactly do...
thanks again...
Brent

[Lolafish]

Welcome!  We have all your answers in our stickies, so go ahead and do some reading, and if you still have some questions, fire away!

P.S.
I wouldn't put more than 2 in your 29gallon tank.  Goldies are very dirty fish and require very high filtration and frequent WC's (water changes).

[zookey]

Welcom to the forums!  I am glad you are investigating the needs of your future goldfish before you purchase them!  I can tell you from experience that Goldfish can be very addicting!  

I must agree with Lolafish...... those goldfish you are looking at are little now but they will get big FAST with the right food and clean water.  I have one that was less than an inch in the body when I got it this time last year and now it is bigger than my hand (about 6 inches) and that does not include the tail!  They do grow and quite rappidly in my experience.

You mentioned that all the other fish in your tank (except the remaining black skirt tetras) have passed away....... my question for you is :  Was it some kind of sickness that took your other fish from the tank?  If it was it could be contagious to the goldfish you plan to get.  I would read all the stickies throughout the forum and see what the others here have to tell you.  I have never kept anything but goldfish in the tank I currently have running so I don't know how long an illness could survive in a tank or if it would be a danger to goldfish.

Good luck in your plans to get some goldfish!  Again, Welcome, you can learn alot from the members on this site!

[SeaWitch]

Welcome to AP!  It is wonderful that you are doing your research before adding GF to your tank.  TM is correct, as your really need no more than 2 Goldies in your 29g tank, unless you plan on upgrading very soon to a bigger tank for them.  They are very messy and they can grow very big, too!

We do have MANY stickies on here for research, but I will answer some of your questions for you:

We tend to go with barebottom tanks here, no sand or gravel.  The reason being is that GF root around in sand and it can come out their gills and irritate them.  As for gravel, it is very messy to try and keep clean unless you do vacuming every week, which is a pain.  River rocks or galss stones make great decor and are easier to deal with when it comes to mess GF.  Plants are good, too.  As for decorations, make sure it is nothing your GF can get stuck in.  They are very curious and will try to get into tight spaces.  Also, hollow ornaments can get dangerous gasses built up in them, so if you do use them, make sure to take them out and clean them every week.

Your filter is fine for a 29g tank.  Emperors are good filters.  You need to make sure that with GF, you have 10x the amount of filtration as the tank's size, or more.  So, for a 29g tank, you need at least 290gph filtered, but I would go with more.

As for the tetras and goldies together, I don't have any trops, except bettas, so I really don't know.  The tetras may become a snack for the GF when the goldies get bigger.  GF will put anything in their mouths.  As for tank temps, anwhere from 70-75 is okay for GF, but don't go any higher in temps.  The only time you need to go above 75 is when a GF is sick and needs the extra warmth.  You may want to clean your tank really well before adding the goldies.  How did your other fish die?  We can talk about cleaning later on, before you add your fish.

Is your 29g tank cycled?  Do you have a water test kit?  Water conditioner?  Also, Gf like bubblers in their tanks for extra oxygen.  They also love the bubbles to play in.

If you need anything else, please just ask away!!!

[GoldFish19]

the 29 is cycled, if you count it being set-up as a tropical community tank for years...   the fish died of just natural causes, or the wrong mix of fish...  i am pretty sure there was no illness in the tank... 

well, i have sand in the bottom of it now, because there was small gravel, and i saw that that can be bad for GF...  but i guess if you think sand is not so good either, i should switch that out too...  and just put in nothing, or bigger rocks here and there...

i am not sure what the emporer is GPH wise, it is a 400, so i wonder if that is 400 GPH, or what...  i'll have to look when i get home tonight.

i know my wife will not be too happy to hear that only 2 GF are recommended, but i trust your guys judgment...

we are gonna take the tetras to the LFS tonight, they said they would take them from us...   so we are just gonna house GF in the tank and nothing else...

now, just out of curiousity, sinse GF like to swim, aren't the tanks pretty blah looking then...  specially with no substrate...  i'll have to look around here if there is a spot for it, and see others tank set-ups...  just seems that it would be boring looking, and being that it is in our bedroom, i want it to look nice... 

anyway, thanks for the help so far...  this is a nice site...

[zookey]

Hi again,  Yes an emporor 400 is suppose to have a 400 GPH rating.  I would probably get rid of the extra carbon from the gray containers in the filter though.  Carbon is not the best with Goldfish.  You could get some extra bio-media that could fit in the gray boxes for good bacteria to grow in.  Just a suggestion.

As far as only being able to get two goldies ......... in no time they will be large and Beautiful...... I am always amazed at how large my little goldfish got in less than a years time and the finage on him is just amazing (in my opinion).  And for Decor.......... I have some plants in containers, some Large rock, some pollished river rock, and some short "stump" type decorations in my tank.  A background image helps alot to make it not look so empty but leaving lots of swimming room for the fish. 

I wish you all the luck with the goldfish! 

[SeaWitch]

You can do gravel in the tank, but I would only make it about 1/4-inch deep and you must make sure it is vacumed well and that the fish don't choke on it.  We do have ppl here who have gravel, like Claire, and she keeps is vacumed well and watches her fish to make sure if they put it in their mouths, then they spit it out.

Also, you say your tank is cycled, but you must remember that GF are different from trops and their bio-load is alot more.  You may have to check for cycle bumps when you add your fish, until the Bb's grow to handle the fish's load.   A test kit is a must when having goldies.

[GoldFish19]

well, tonigt we are taking the 2 tetras to the store, so the tank will be empty...  i do have a test kit...  i got a new one not so long ago for my cichlids, so i will be able to take readings...
i've read places with differ water parameters...   what should i be looking for in that department.
i am sure ammonia, and nitrite should be 0 PPM
what about nitrate:  0-20/40 PPM
PH: i've read anywhere from 6.6-7.4...

and of crouse water temp, being only a GF tank now, what is ideal???  70 degrees.  or do they actually color up better/faster at like 65 degrees...

i really like the fast repsonses...  this site has really nice/helpful people here...  once i get my fish and take some pics, i will be sure to post them here to get everyone's opinion... 
thanks again.

[SeaWitch]

I keep my temps between 72-74 degrees.  Even though Gf are "cold water" fish, they do better in temps of this range.  Try to keep trates below 20ppm and no ammonia or trites.  Ph needs to be at least 7.6-7.8, but some fish do well in the 8.0 range, too.

[GoldFish19]

ok, heres the latest scoop...  we took our 2 tetras to the store last night, and took out all the sand on the bottom...  my wife is going out at lunch time and buying some larger "pretty stones" as she calls them at the craft store, and we might be running out to the pet store to look at some GF...   i tested the water last night also, all parameters are good, so if we find 2 GF she likes, we'll probably pick them up tonight...  the weather is getting kinda bad here, snow wise, so hopefully it doesn't get too bad that we can't drive to the store...  we'll see...  i'll keep you guys updated and take some pics when i get a chance...

[SeaWitch]

Good luck!!!!

[GoldFish19]

ok...  here's another question for you...  my wife just called, she ran to michael's craft store, and purchased what is called polished river rock, she got them home, started to rinse them off, and saw on the back of the bag, that it says not to be used in aquariums...  what are your thoughts on this...  is "polished" river rocks mean that they have some kind of polish on them that will be harmful to the GF...  or are they just putting that on there for liability reasons...   can you soak them in bleach for a bit, or boil them to get rid of the "bad stuff" on the river rock...
let me know your thoughts please...
thanks.

[SeaWitch]

In my opinion, if the bag says not to use in aquariums, then I don't use it, period.  I just won't take the chance...

[claire_uk]

Welcome to the forum, and great that you have been researching and asking questions before getting your goldfish. I agree with the others, 2 would do great in a 29 gallon. Some nice stones and fake plants would be nice. You could get live ones, but will need to disinfect them first.

Like Seawitch mentioned, I have gravel in my tank with larger granite stones. I did have barebottom, but decided to give gravel ago again as I prefer it. I just keep my eye on them, and they like about looking for food.

Good luck on getting your fish, once you get them, keep your eye on your water params.

[Lari]

I'm going to have to check the bags of stones I have downstairs... I get all of my polished river rock at the dollar stores. I just rinse them and put in the tanks, and haven't ever had a problem with any of the fish seeming to get sick or anything from them.

I never noticed the bags saying not for aquarium use....wonder if I just missed it??

I do have a couple un used bags in the basement, tomorrow I'll try to remember to check.

[zookey]

Some rock tumblers/polishers use different types of sand or grit to pollish the stones.  Others actually use like a wax type liquid to "shine" up the stones.  I guess I would be leary of the rock if it states not to be used in aquariums as they may have the wax or some type of pollish that could leach into the water with time.  I know if you have a WalMart around they sell pollished river rock for aquariums if that is what you would like to use.

[Puritychild]

the 29 is cycled, if you count it being set-up as a tropical community tank for years...   the fish died of just natural causes, or the wrong mix of fish...  i am pretty sure there was no illness in the tank... 

well, i have sand in the bottom of it now, because there was small gravel, and i saw that that can be bad for GF...  but i guess if you think sand is not so good either, i should switch that out too...  and just put in nothing, or bigger rocks here and there...

i am not sure what the emporer is GPH wise, it is a 400, so i wonder if that is 400 GPH, or what...  i'll have to look when i get home tonight.

i know my wife will not be too happy to hear that only 2 GF are recommended, but i trust your guys judgment...

we are gonna take the tetras to the LFS tonight, they said they would take them from us...   so we are just gonna house GF in the tank and nothing else...

now, just out of curiousity, sinse GF like to swim, aren't the tanks pretty blah looking then...  specially with no substrate...  i'll have to look around here if there is a spot for it, and see others tank set-ups...  just seems that it would be boring looking, and being that it is in our bedroom, i want it to look nice... 

anyway, thanks for the help so far...  this is a nice site...

I have a 55gallon with 4 goldies in it. I needed decoration as well so I went with some flat shiny marble like stones and some medium river looking stones (both of which i bought at the pet store in the fish section...so i knew they were safe). Then I went to the thrift store to see what they had. I found a medium round fish bowl...i put some rocks in it and put the fish bowl in my tank    It's a really interesting look! 

Also, I originally had gravel in there but I much prefer the barer look I have now...the bottom acts kind of like a mirror and reflects the coloros of my fish and plants and what not.

You can see a vid of my tank here: 

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v137/puritychild/?action=view&current=DSCN1901.flv

About the 2 fish in a tank..my fish looked so tiny when i first put them in my big tank, but now one of my goldfish is the size of the palm of my hand! The tank doesnt look as big as it did before. Just wait till your little baby goldfish grow into these huge hungry monsters...you will be glad you only have 2!

[GoldFish19]

hi all...  first off, thanks for all the good info so far, glad i became a part of this community...

we got 2 goldfish(not named, YET!!!) and my wife decided to go with the polished rocks, as they are the exact same thing as what you buy in the pet stores, so my guess is that polished just means that they are like buffed in a tumbler...  but all is well this morning with the little guys, so i think we are fine...

one thing that might be a problem though, and i hope you can ease my worry, is the food we got is the sinking pellets, because we were told that flakes can make them get bloat, so we are sticking with the sinking pellets...  well, they sink really fast, and they are small, so they are just falling into all the little crevices and they can't reach them...  or can they...  should we be buying something else...  what do you all feed your GF...  brand name and all would be helpfull...  i can't remember the name we got, but we got our GF, and food at petsmart...  they had just got a shipment in last night while we were there, so we had first dibs...  we got 2 reall cute ones...   i'll get some pics as soon as i can and let you see the set-up...  it came out ok...  might be chanigng it, but for now, my wife is happy... 

[SeaWitch]

Your fish should find the pellets when they forage on the bottom if the tank.  I use Pro-Gold from Goldfish Connection.  www.goldfishconnection.com   However, I make gel food with my pellets.   What you can do is clear a space on the bottom and drop their food into it so they can see it better.  Congrats on your new fish!!!!

[zookey]

When I had gravel in my tank I put an ashtray (clear glass) on the bottom of the tank kinda burried into the gravel and used a tube (filter tube extention) to drop the food directly into the ashtray so the fish could easily find it and it seemed to keep my gravel somewhat cleaner.  The fish learned pretty quickly that the ashtray was where the food was.

I personally feed ProGold right now.  I have also fed Omega One sinking pellets.  I still feed Omega One to the Bettas.  I also feed peas, zuchini, cucumbers, broccoli, and colliflower.  Along with tubeflex(?) worms, bloodworms, something that looks like shrimp maybe it is krill, and a different worm sold frozen at my LFS.  All of the frozen foods I feed are Omega One brand.  The fish really seem to love all the variety too.

Good luck and I look forward to seeing pictures.

[GoldFish19]

this is the food we bought right now...  should i change do you think?
www.petstore.com/ps_ViewItem-category-Tetra_Dorofin_Goldfish_Sinking_Pellet_Food_Aquarium_Food_Flake_Pellet_Food-vendor-TetraPond-SearchStr--action-view-idProduct-TS16410-idCategory-AQFOFP.html

[SeaWitch]

I've never used that brand before.   Why don't you check out the Goldfish Cafe and get some ideas on other foods you can feed them along with the pellets?

[claire_uk]

Congrats. on your new fish! A varied diet will be best for them, and maybe peas once a week. (froozen, unsalted)
I use Tetra fin Japan, which looks similar to the ones you have bought, possibly just a different name due to different country.
They are a very good staple food for fancy goldfish, IMO. Im sure they will be foraging around amongst the stones for the food. 

[ryukinOra]

Congrats on your new fish!  We needs pics ya know 

I feed mine Omega One and gel food, and occasionally frozen bloodworm or brineshrimp. Oh and lots of veggies  They especially like watercrest, drop a few strands in and they start shredding!

[GoldFish19]

well, i grabbed my camera and started taking some pics of the tank and the goldfish, but my camera battery died...  1 tank pic is all i got so far...  will try again, but for now, here is the tank shot... the GF are behind the bubbler, but hard to really see what they look like...  let me know what you think of it...

[zookey]

Oh Wow!!     I love the water lilly flowers in there!  The plant in the rocks is pretty cool too.

I see your fish and they look like they are enjoying their new home!  Are they fantail or ryukin??  Is the one fish white with red fins?  He looks interesting but I like "gold" fish too.  More pictures are definately a must...........   

[SeaWitch]

Fabulous!!!! :clap:  You and your wife did a GREAT job!!!  I love it and your fishies are cute, too!!!

[GoldFish19]

ok, i just plugged my camera in and started taking more shots...  i am having to leave here in a bit, so these are the best shots i could get...  not bad, but i only have a little cyber shot...  doesn't do that well with shooting movement, but there decent...
and not totally sure what the fish are, other than fantails, but there are differ kinds of fantails, right???   any guess to male and female...  my wife doesn't want to name them untill she knows what they are...  i read about sexing them, but are they too small to sex being only about 1-1.5" long...
anywho, here they are...
enjoy...

[SeaWitch]

The orange one looks like a male.  I see stars on his gill plates, I think.   He is also a classic fantail, I believe.  The top one I can't tell the sex of.  A pic of its vent would be helpful.  It looks more like a Ryukin/fantail mix.  They are both beautiful!!!

[BruceP]

The site you posted said this about that food:  TetraExotic Granules offer an elegant banquet for your ornamental goldfish.  The perfect supplement to your fish's primary diet, these sticks are specially designed to promote the development of colors in exotic cold-water varieties.  Ideal for Fantails, Moors, Orandas, Ranchus, Bubble-Eyes and Lionheads.

Supplement??? Sounds to me like you should be feeding something else with this food.  Price is about the same as the Pro Gold from Goldfish Connection which is a COMPLETE diet food.  We just got in two more bags for our 'pigs'.  

Your new fish are CUTE!! 

[addictinganimal]

That is one AWESOME tank!!! Love the design you have in there. Great job!

[ryukinOra]

Beautiful tank!!! Your fish are cute!!

[Lolafish]

The tank is gorgeous, but I'd remove those big rocks, which can really mangle Goldies with those sharp edges. You don't want to learn the hard way.  They look nice, but keep them in the Trop tanks, not with your delicate Goldfish.   

[GoldFish19]

hi guys/gals...   it's been a little while sinse i've visited...  sorry *(
i took a bunch of pics of our 2 GF hoping that someone will be able to help us out figuring what we have male/female wise...
please let us know what you all think we have...  whether or not the pics are good or not good...  i tried looking for venting threads and articles, but i don't know this site well enough yet, so hoping these pics will get us our answers...
thanks...

http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee193/phedogg/Gold%20Fish/020209/?action=view&current=aeb2d5e1.pbw

[SeaWitch]

The pics went by too fast for me to get a good look at thier gill plates (looking for stars) and there weren't any pics of their vents.  You really need vent shots as sometimes males have stars and other times, they don't.

[GoldFish19]

i can try to catch them i guess and take better pics, but you should be able to click on the pics as they go by to enlarge them and keep them still long enough to study the pic...

i thought i took pics of the vent...  isn't that the area in between the the under belly and the anal fin...  by where there waste comes out?

thanks for trying at least.

[zookey]

I love the fish.

As far as vent shots.......... the vent area is more "between" the anal fins.  It is a verry difficult picture to get a good shot of.  Your fish look to be small enough yet that it could still be very difficult to tell for sure the sex of the fish.  My fish have all grown quite a bit since I got them and I still can't catch a good enough look to tell if they are male or female.

Good luck with your fishes...... they seem to be doing quite well for you and your wife.